During our discussion today, we looked at several different perspectives on the sublime and its interpretations. To begin with, we noted the similarities and differences between Burke’s and Kant’s ideas of the sublime. In doing so, we established some binaries that most scholars consider to be important to the understanding of the sublime: order vs. chaos, pleasure vs. terror, confined vs. boundless, and the distinction between the beautiful and the sublime.
Next, we split into groups to discuss some specific questions from Edward Young’s Night Thoughts. We found a tremendous amount of sublime imagery, from the vastness of the night sky to comparisons between God and worms. Through attempts to illustrate Young’s sublime mentalities, we began to explore the impossibility of truly conveying and quantifying a sublime experience. Additionally, we considered the concept of time and its use as a both a rational tool of order and an apparatus derived from the sublime.
Finally, we perused Anna Laetitia Barbauld’s “A Summer Evening’s Meditation” to push our understanding of the sublime into the realm of gendered differences. These differences in experience between a “male” and a “female” sense of the sublime hearken back to the binaries considered at the beginning of class. We concluded by analyzing the difference between an unrestrained sublime that is impossible to account for and a more reassuring definition of the sublime in which we are able to rationalize the infinite and terrifying aspects of a sublime experience.
These final thoughts bring us to an interesting impasse. In order to discuss the sublime in class today, we followed an assignment with ordered instructions, posted questions, and attempted to reach finite conclusions about a subject that, by definition, is supposed to be too large to understand or quantify. Is this the proper way to go about studying the sublime? Can an author (or in the case of William Blake, an artist of any kind) really convey a sublime experience for readers to fully grasp? Or should a different approach be taken? What might that approach be?
5 comments:
Personally, I would need more visualization or graphic details to feel the effect of sublime. I would relate more to the author if I was able to finish the text and shake my head, "whoa, "that's a scary thought"- something along those lines. There are texts or movies out there that really make your head spin. For example, the movie Inception. If i was reading that in a book, I would be overwhelmed and trying to keep track which dream I'm "in"! I think the C18 text we were a little too timid. Certainly it revealed enough to show us the idea of the sublime- for example, Young's text makes a worm dramatic - "A worm! a God! I tremble at myfelf, And in myfelf am loft!". A such harmless and tiny creature has shaken up the narrator. I may be taken aback, but it isn't enough to encompass me with the feeling of the sublime. So, my approach would be more visual details and express all the feelings you can, in an artistic manner. Maybe I just require more clarification but I didn't see the point of talking about immortals in Young's poem if we're trying to experience pleasure v. terror. Of course, pictures are an excellent supplement that would help!
I agree with 217 in the argument that pictures or other visual aids can help to capture the sublime (just take a look at some of the videos posted on the other blog post!). However, I think a good writer can capture the essence of the sublime just as well, and perhaps even better. When you are reading something, your imagination puts those words into images and makes sense of them. And because the sublime can be different for one person than it is for another, reading something offers more flexibility for your mind to imagine what that thought is. In contrast, a movie like Inception may inspire the sublime for 217 or me, whereas, it bored my dad to sleep!
The sublime is such an imaginative, abstract idea and is different for everyone. I think some people could realize the sublime more in a haiku than in a picture.
I agree with the two key points made above about visuals and subjectivity. I think in a lot of cases, a visual representation of something vast and terror-inspiring will be more effective than writing. However, subjectivity and individual emotional responses are the more important factor. Due to the subjectivity of what people view as sublime I do think it can be man made and exist outside of nature. So books, movies, and art can produce the sublime. Nonetheless, I think there is a greater possibility of creating the sublime when it is unintentional. It is hard for an author to convey his or her sublime experience and expect the reader to feel the same way.
in the teaching of the sublime I think it is best to come at it from all angles. Many different artists have tried to convey this feeling through different avenues. That is because that is their way of udnerstanding and conveying their own experiences. I think it is the same with the consumer. While I may see an image presented in the classroom and think there is nothing sublime about it, my classmate next to me may totally disagree. Likewise, the words of a poet or an author might clearly convey to me thier sense of sublime and be lost on that same classmate. Because the actual experience of the sublime is an idividual occurance that happens in our interior it is hard to predict who will grasp which example. The sublime is not a fixed idea. It varies from person to person. My sublime experiences have been looking at the milky way, and swimming in the middle of the ocean. For you it could be standing on the top of a mountain or Times Square at sundown. I think the best way to teach the sublime is in itself quite sublime...there are millions of ways.
I’m glad the point that the sublime is subjective was pointed out. I feel how the subject is taught today is pretty standard (good!). It points students in the directions they need to go, that is what to look for, what to understand. However, when teaching the sublime (no matter how ‘perfect’) you can’t teach people what or how something affects them. Examples like the readings given in class were great for understanding the emotions behind the sublime. I think it’s unfair to writers to say their works aren’t as affective as visual aids. I think good writing paints a clear image in your head. The language and the image it creates is your visual aide. BUT once again that is my opinion and shows how the sublime and what people deem as “accurately portraying the sublime” is subjective. Teaching the sublime isn’t difficult, but teaching the effects of the sublime is. As someone mentioned giving examples from all different art forms (writing, painting, music, etc.) is a good way to teach the sublime. It helps in the subjectivity of the subject.
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